Feedback - FROWNS

[bivashd]

I dont have any intention of defaming or blaming someone without any reason. You handed over the equipment to my parents on 19th who were in Delhi at that time. I received the same on 27th May and immediately informed you as well as sent these pics. I couriered the lens on 28th as per your suggestion..I have sold three of my lenses in JJMPF without any complaints or issues and I am sure will continue to use this forum in future also. I never changed my mind, I simply asked you for a refund the day I received the lens and provided my bank details same day. Now the various messages from your side were:

1. "There cannot be any fungus, there might be dust in the lens but no fungus. Delhi weather me fungus ho hi nahi sakta"
2. Even without seeing the pics which I had sent you, you accept " There might be one or two spots. Dhoop me rakh dijiye do teen din. thik ho jaega"
3."Refund is not possible as I have already invested in other gear however I am ready to pay the servicing charges quoted by Nikon"

After this ,I remind him of his post in JJ Mehta where he described the lens condition as 9.5/10. He agrees for a refund and deletes his original post soon after.

4.After few days suddenly he calls up and says "I will refund you 32,000 as the lens price has dropped from last week"
5.Again after some time "Lens bhijwa dijiye, but I cant promise you anything right now"

When I told him I will upload pics in JJMPF, this is what he said " Will pay in three installments, if it suits you then only msg me"
after that "go ahead, will see what JJ Mehta can do. I don't do business in JJMEHTA"

All this for the lens which he had repeatedly assured over phone that it was in excellent condition and sparingly used.

I couriered the lens the day after I got it to my friend in Delhi who's office is 15 mins drive from Mr.Arya's shop. He had initially told me not to send the lens directly to him. After that I had given him one week time to refund my money and take back the lens, but he did not. Any sane person will know with what intentions he has sold his equipment. and now he is asking for the lens without any time frame/commitment for a refund. If your intention was to make a refund you would have done the day you had seen the pics which I had sent instead of coming up with different offers and payment terms.

Anyways I have learnt my lesson well. Will never buy used gear without inspecting. I trusted your words and that was my biggest mistake..

[rajesharya]

I have delivered you lens on 19th May and you called me on 29th for this issue and I simply told you I was not aware of this issue in lens as I lens in kept in bag since last 6months and I am not using it and request you to send me lens back and I will refund your full amount once I received the lens. But till date I haven't received the lens back. I have all proofs with me for this conversation. You change your mind every second. The last message you sent me that Lens is lying with my friend talk to him. Why should I talk to him its totally your responsibility to deliver lens to me. And just because of your this attitude I have lost 2 potential customers for my lens, one is Sharsh from JJM group only.

BTW It was already mentioned in my post that "I Would prefer someone who can check the lens personally and take it." So how can you say that I want a out of city buyer so that I can dispose off my items. And I am still saying my camera condition in 10/10. How can a single pixel dot which you can only see when LED is pitch black affect you images. And it is there since very first day I have bought this camera.

Mr. Bivesh you did what you want (defaming me by posting here), but I am still open to refund you. But clear your mind first that what is your target defaming me or getting a refund.

[bivashd]

my D800 purchase went horribly wrong..camera is in gurgaon service centre now for fixing a spot in LCD..and the 24-120 lens for which i paid 50k has fungus and dust..the cam condition was described as 10/10 and lens 9.5/10, in excellent condition..all this by a renowned wedding photographer based out of N.Delhi..maintains his own website www.rajesharya.com...his dialogue when i complained "Maine apko lens bech dia hai, test karne nahi dia"..

http://www.jjmehta.com/forum/index.php/topic,34773.msg328928.html#msg328928

[dilshadnawaz]

Posting my first feedback in jjmpf, and really hoped this didn't have to be in the frowns section... but my last transaction turned really unfortunate for me.

I bought the 300 2.8 VR from Dilshad Ibrahim from Nagpur. (user: dilshadnawaz) http://www.jjmehta.com/forum/index.php?topic=31905.0
Since this was an outstation deal we couldn't check the lens personally before buying, and since it wasn't possible for him to to take it to my contact in Nagpur for checking, we decided to go forward with the deal based on his posted and mailed images, testimonials from a common fb acquaintance regarding no known problems with the lens, and Dilshad's personal assurance that the lens was functionally perfect with no problems. Accordingly we transferred the amount (2.45L) on 18/1/2014 and received the lens via DTDC on 24/1/2014. The lens was packed in the nikon lens case with only a gunny bag and no padding wrapped around it. There were also more cosmetic blemishes not initially visible in his posted pictures on the lens.

However, my worries started at that point, since I couldn't hear the click of VR engaging and disengaging I expected from my other VR lenses on half shutter pressing. I also couldn't see the familiar viewfinder image stabilization. A chat with Dilshad however further added to my confusion, as he stated he had never heard the well-known VR click with this lens in the past!
Confused and really worried, I took it to our repair shop, who finally confirmed the the VR wasn't working.  This was corroborated by the Nikon authorized repair center in Kolkata, Capital Electronics informally, but they wouldn't repair out of warranty lenses.

The repair needed total replacement of the VR unit, and costed 18000.  I can clearly hear VR click on now, which the seller claimed not to have heard in 2.5 years of use.

Hi
This deal started when I posted this item for sale on OLX. . Mr Subhrashish Niyogi ( User: Eragon)  saw my add on OLX and called me up for inquiring. Meanwhile I was already in talk with another person for the same lens and my deal was finalised for 2.5L. It was decided that he would come to Nagpur around 10th of Feb and pickup the lens. In this process Mr Subhrashish Niyogi called me up for the same and i quoted him 2.75L. But I told him that I am already in talks with some other person and he will be coming to nagpur to pick it up around mid of Feb. Mr Subhrashish Niyogi was reluctant on buying this lens so he told me to send some pics on his email and quote the final price. I did send him the pics as he wanted and quoted my final price as 2.5L. He said that he won't be able to come down to nagpur so  I should ship the lens to calcutta. I told him to ask someone in his knowhow from Nagpur to come and check the lens and he did talk to a person but he did not come down to check it.
He also asked some common acquaintances about the lens for which he  himself accepts that a common acquaintance had given the feedback that the lens had no problems.
Again a new round of negotiations started. He asked to further reduce the price as he was to take it immediately. I again reduced 5k as i was getting the cash immediately. So the deal was fixed for 2.45L and he was to transfer the  amount in my account and I was to ship the lens. As he transferred the cash in my axis bank account I was in Mumbai so I shipped his lens from Mumbai as i had promised him to ship immediately.
Now about the lens... it was in 100% working condition and before shipping it to him I had been to bandavgarh with the same lens and have some amazing photos with it. I own a 200-400 f4 vr ,300mm 2.8vr, 600mm vr2,400mm 2.8 vr2, 70-200mm 2.8 vr2, 70-300vr2 but inspite of this I don't understand what click he talks about and I don't think it is possible that in all these lenses the vr is non-functional. When i shipped the lens it was 100% ok and the vr was working. I have some recent shots of Tiger where I have clicked tack sharp photos handheld at a shutter speed of 1/30 from a jypsy which is not possible without VR. (he admits that a common acquiatance had told him that  the lens was ok).
One cannot rule out the possibility of mishandling by the courier company in transit as it happens sometimes but that is not my responsibility. So I once again repeat that the lens had no issues when I shipped it to him.
After this I sold my 200-400  to a gentleman and requested him to come personally to check and collect it as after dealing with Mr Subhrashish Niyogi i was very disappointed and did not want to take any chance. That gentleman came down to Nagpur to check and collect the lens.
   
Forgot to mention one more thing that he did not deal with me on the basis of this post in the forum. He saw my add on OLX and called me, that is why he has never sent me any PM or replied to my post on the open forum. When I updated the status of my post as 'SOLD' he noticed it and hence this post from his side.
About his post I too have some doubts, as per this statement I cannot understand what does he want to say....""This was corroborated by the Nikon authorized repair center in Kolkata, Capital Electronics informally, but they wouldn't repair out of warranty lenses......""
Why did he get it checked informally. Why would Nikon not repair its own product if it is not in warranty. Maybe they will charge for it but I don't think that they won't repair it.
Further adding to it I called up Capital Electronics( PhNo: 03340013978) and talked to Mr Subroto Sadhukar and he confirmed that they do repair out of warranty lens but charge for it and he explained that the normal procedure is that they take the lens and keep it for a day or two for investigating the problem and against the receipt they issue a job card. Now my question is why hasn't he posted a copy of the Job card or at least quoted the Job card number of capital electronics in his post when he claims that he got it checked from nikon.
""....The repair needed total replacement of the VR unit, and costed 18000....""
He has not made it clear that where did he get it repaired. Was the motor replaced an original one.( He has added a snapshot of my post similarly he should have posted a copy of the bill amounting 18000/- ,as anybody who claims to pay 18000 for repairs must have obtained a bill for the same . )
And second point ....."" testimonials from a common fb acquaintance regarding no known problems with the lens......""
The above quote clearly indicates that a third person known to both had already given him feedback that the lens was ok.
This is my side of story and please point out If I am wrong anywhere in this deal.
If anyone has any further queries pls feel free to clarify.

[eragon]

Posting my first feedback in jjmpf, and really hoped this didn't have to be in the frowns section... but my last transaction turned really unfortunate for me.

I bought the 300 2.8 VR from Dilshad Ibrahim from Nagpur. (user: dilshadnawaz) http://www.jjmehta.com/forum/index.php?topic=31905.0
Since this was an outstation deal we couldn't check the lens personally before buying, and since it wasn't possible for him to to take it to my contact in Nagpur for checking, we decided to go forward with the deal based on his posted and mailed images, testimonials from a common fb acquaintance regarding no known problems with the lens, and Dilshad's personal assurance that the lens was functionally perfect with no problems. Accordingly we transferred the amount (2.45L) on 18/1/2014 and received the lens via DTDC on 24/1/2014. The lens was packed in the nikon lens case with only a gunny bag and no padding wrapped around it. There were also more cosmetic blemishes not initially visible in his posted pictures on the lens.

However, my worries started at that point, since I couldn't hear the click of VR engaging and disengaging I expected from my other VR lenses on half shutter pressing. I also couldn't see the familiar viewfinder image stabilization. A chat with Dilshad however further added to my confusion, as he stated he had never heard the well-known VR click with this lens in the past!
Confused and really worried, I took it to our repair shop, who finally confirmed the the VR wasn't working.  This was corroborated by the Nikon authorized repair center in Kolkata, Capital Electronics informally, but they wouldn't repair out of warranty lenses.

The repair needed total replacement of the VR unit, and costed 18000.  I can clearly hear VR click on now, which the seller claimed not to have heard in 2.5 years of use.

[VikramF]

Can ANY replies/expressions of sympathy/help etc be posted on new threads ... you can imagine how difficult it is for anyone to use the frowns board if there is one frown report followed by 2 pages of comments and then another frown ...

It's best that the frown section just talk about the incident and provide as much of info on the person involved as possible. That will allow people to browse through more easily.

For Kiran's post: I've created a new thread here: http://www.jjmehta.com/forum/index.php/topic,33385.0.html

[arudikiran]

Fellow Members,

Here is a issue where a deal is done, money transferred and person who is supposed to send D800  and lens is missing,


Would like to bring it to your kind notice about my recent horrific experience&substantial financial loss on one WTS deal which has left me devastated both financially & psychologically.

Synopsis of the entire deal:

Jjmpf Member Name: Suresh Shivaraman.
Jjmpf Member handle: rrkumar.
Item put up for Sale: Nikon D800Body& Box with all accessories only.
Additional freebees along with the deal: Nikon 24mm f2.8D lens & Remote Cord MC-36a.
Sale Amount: Rs. 1.10 Lakhs.
Date of the WTS Thread: 24 Dec 2013.
Date of discussions (plus verification of seller with another member) with seller: 25 Dec 2013.
NEFT fund transfer: 26 Dec 2013 for 1.10 Lakhs (made thru 3 transfers of Rs. 1K, 99K & 10K respectively).
Issue: Item not received till date & the seller is nor reachable through the phone & by PMs & email.

Narration:

As I was owning a Nikon D7000 I had a dream of moving to FX. Hence, was on the look out for buying a Nikon FX body in good condition. Saw WTS post  from handle " rrkumar " with the caption "quik sell tamilnadu buyers only  " and item for sale was "d800+nikon 24mm f/2.8+remote cord mc-36a". for 1.10 Lacs on 24 Dec 2013. I sent my cell no to him and he called me. Based on the telephonic discussions and the seller agreed to part with the camera & the additional items along with the shipping cost for 1.10 Lacs.

To be more sure, I even checked his history and found that he has earlier sold Olympus EPL1 to jjmpf member Jannu aka MR. JanardhanBarthwal. Had a word with Jannu& he gave a good account of the seller rrkumar. FurtherJannu's post in the Grins section of the buy & sell which is give below made me to decide in favour of this deal & went ahead with this deal (JJMPF member 'Hot Shoe' i.e., Mr. Vinod was with me when I spoke to the seller).


I confirm that Jannu's and Vinod 's were only suggestions/opinions based on their experience and the decision to go ahead with this deal was purely mine & I take complete onus of that decision.
That evening I requested bank details from the seller and he has sent me a PM which is below
Note: This is the same account Mr. Jannu transferred the amount for Olympus EPL1 purchase.

Based on this PM I initially transferred Rs.1000 and got a confirmation from the seller that he had received the amt and then transferred balance  amt of 1.09Lacsand the proof of the same is below:


After receiving the entire amount of Rs 1.10 Lakhs the seller acknowledged the receipt of the amount & confirmed me that he will be dispatching thru FedEx thru Air on 26thDec 13. By that same day evening he told that packing of the d800 and lens had become a big package since he has put lot of packing and he told that the FEDEX people were asking 11 K for Shipping. Hence he confirmed that he will dispatch the camera through someone who was travelling to Bangalore that evening. The hand courier was to reach Bangalore & deliver the package to me at my office on 28 Dec 2013 morning around 930 am.

I was expecting my parcel on 28th morning and it didnt arrive. I called all the phone numbers that he had given and found that both the nos (of RR kumar and the person who is supposed to carry the parcel to me) were getting diverted to a Bengali guys' cell no. which is switched off now. I have sent a immediate pm regarding the non-receipt of the parcel but no reply from him till date.

Thru this i ask members who know anything abt this person to come out so that i will help police in their investigation.

find attached a doc file with all attachments for ur reference.

Kiran

[VikramF]

Fellow Members,

In the coming days you will notice that a number of posts in this thread have been removed. FROWNS is our "go-to" place to learn about deals gone bad and who did whatever.

In order to keep this thread as useful and concise as possible for the JJMPF Membership, comments which do not add pertinent information and facts about deals gone bad are subject to be removed.

Thank you for understanding. It's absolutely nothing personal, so please don't take it that way if one or more of your comments disappear while your Moderators set about to boil thinning soup down to a richer sauce.

Happy Day.

To reiterate: While posts that go into discussions might seem justified, the purpose behind this thread is to create an easy to skim through reference of deals gone bad so members can just reference the name and other details of the person. Discussions dilute the purpose behind the thread as it becomes impossible for members to find details.

Hence, please refrain from forming a discussion and take that to a new thread.

My thought is that we should have a set format so it's easily skimmable. If anyone has thoughts on a format that they'd like to see, let me know and I'll take it up for discussion (just make it sane and not 20 fields as no one will follow that). Something along the lines of:

Username:
Member Name:
Known Contact Details:
Location:
Bank Name & Branch if Known (Please don't post account numbers):
Deal Details (what equipment along with details, serials etc):
Why it resulted in a frown:

[pbafna]

Oh, the things we do as adults.

Well said, Ramsub!

[ramsub]

True, Pramod, especially in our transactions that are not face to face and there is a tremendous scope for mistaken assumptions, it is important to keep things simple. Even if one finds a better deal in the interim, it would be the done thing to pay the agreed-upon price. I suppose there are others who prefer a more dynamic negotiation model, on the assumption that "we are all adults, exactly what about this surprises you?" :) but that model leads to absolute chaos in a many-to-many marketplace that is based on passion, where experiences full of trust leads to lasting friendships in the non-virtual world ... And great deals too :)

Thanks,
Ramsub