Feedback - FROWNS

[Hankosaurus]

thelightening said:

I personally feel this, not as a genuine step in a deal which the seller has agreed to the price by the buyer after hard bargaining everyday on multiple chat sessions. At last I agreed to the price negotiated by the buyer and marked the item booked. ... So would like to raise a caution on this member.

It appears that a verbal contract between JJMPF Members was in place at the moment the deal was struck and the price was agreed to by the seller, and as requested by the buyer.

Violation of a verbal contract is a violation of the Rules within the JJMPF Buy & Sell Forum.

Caution with regard to Member mukeshkhatri_ind is well advised, IMO. Integrity is not just something; it's everything.

[kaushik_s]

 I don't understand why the seller should get offended if someone quotes Amazon (or B&H or anything) price. Why the seller has to take it personally and retort in somewhat uncalled for manner? Can't he politely say that, " sorry, I can't give you at that price", instead of saying "Go, take a hike"? How difficult is that? Are we becoming too insensitive when we have to sell some stuff? What happens if you guys go  to a shop and when you try to bargain and then shop-keeper tells you to get lost? Won't you guys feel offended and probably even stop buying from that seller? Then why when another buyer asks for some bargain (and in this case it was not even bargain) then we suddenly loose our cool and shoo away the buyer with such harsh words? I really don't think that shows the right attitude and I'm very much in agree with what Infantarian did. Anyway, everyone to his own.
Regards,

[Brendon]

I don't understand why the seller should get offended if someone quotes Amazon (or B&H or anything) price. Why the seller has to take it personally and retort in somewhat uncalled for manner? Can't he politely say that, " sorry, I can't give you at that price", instead of saying "Go, take a hike"? How difficult is that? Are we becoming too insensitive when we have to sell some stuff? What happens if you guys go  to a shop and when you try to bargain and then shop-keeper tells you to get lost? Won't you guys feel offended and probably even stop buying from that seller? Then why when another buyer asks for some bargain (and in this case it was not even bargain) then we suddenly loose our cool and shoo away the buyer with such harsh words? I really don't think that shows the right attitude and I'm very much in agree with what Infantarian did. Anyway, everyone to his own.
Regards,

Hi Kaushik, if you have ever dealt with low ballers you will know how most sellers feel. They are very rude in trying to reduce your price and frankly no one can tell the difference between sarcasm, rudeness or politeness from an online text. I have dealt with low ballers extensively with my very first sale in JJM and frankly its hardened my heart towards anybody doing excessive bargaining.

Quoting amazon prices is a very common tactic for low ballers to try and reduce the price. I had one joker you practically gave me an ultimatum saying "see this camera is priced at $200 used which is like 10k in India and its condition is better than yours so ill pay you max 9k. Take it or leave it as you won't get a better offer."

I don't see any rationale in quoting an amazon/bhphoto price when the item in question is going to cost a LOT more after customs and shipping. So unless the person is quoting an INDIAN website with items within India then you are trying to mislead an individual by making it seem that your prices are very high.

I have once quoted a price for a product and a buyer showed me a link where it was cheaper for a brand new item IN INDIA. So I accepted my mistake and reduced the price accordingly and sold it to him.

And IMO its not correct to compare a shop to an individual trying to get rid of his gear. A shop makes a profit from each sale and customers are generally plenty.

An individual trying to sell off his gear is making a loss each and every time (except for a few people who deliberately buy low priced stuff to see for higher prices and make a profit). So the individuals prerogative is to reduce the loss as much as possible.

I agree that the persons response to Infantarian was very rude and while I don't agree to his reaction I can very well understand what the seller is going through.

[kaushik_s]

Well, Bendon, I would agree that with some irritating low-ballers who would repeatedly bug you, retorting like that would be the only option left. I also had my share of experience with them and yes those experiences were not very pleasant. But I don't think it's acceptable that when anyone just refers to Amazon (may be in jest in this case) then one should always put that person also in the same basket. If someone repeatedly keep on pushing you then you probably have the option to snap back or just plainly ignore those low-ballers. You yourself said that some low-ballers are very rude and you don't like the way they portray themselves. Then why should you as a seller also become like that to someone else who is not a low-baller but genuinely asking?

About the shop/commercial establishment analogy, yes I think it's  more prudent for them to be polite. And as we expect them to be polite then why can't we also be like what we want others to be? That too to another fellow photographer and someone from the same fraternity (except those really irritating low-ballers but someone quoting Amazon once doesn't mean that he/she is a low-baller. I hope you'ld agree with that). I'm not telling people to be polite when the other person is rude like the person you've encountered. But one shouldn't be prejudiced always that anyone who wants to bargain a bit or quotes Amazon price sometimes are all in the same league.

And also when an user sells his used item, I don't think we think about loss in monetary term unless it's really huge. But think about the good time you had while using that item and now you are selling it at a value which you feel is right with the present condition of the item. And to be frank, nowadays the prices of the new items (photography related) have gone so high that most of the time one would end up selling it for the same price that he has bought even after using it for years. Anyway, it's a different topic all together and perceptions can vary from person to person. :)

[Sachn]

When it clearly states under the Buy & Sell category that 'JJMehta has no control over this board' I think the mods need not interfere there. It's great to have stickies like the Grins and Frowns but expecting mods or even if the mods on their own accord should not involve themselves. It is a photo forum for a lot of things besides the Buy & Sell. That category is to make it easy within the forum/community but at the end it is Caveat Emptor. The buyer has to do this due diligence and if he ignores a few red flags on a deal well that's how he'll get it right the next time.

Also any seller may get away with 1 bad transaction beyond that there won't be the opportunity cause JJMPF has a lot of vigilant members constantly monitoring the B&S section... :)

[yusuf]

I don't understand why the seller should get offended if someone quotes Amazon (or B&H or anything) price. Why the seller has to take it personally and retort in somewhat uncalled for manner?

Hi Kaushik, if you have ever dealt with low ballers you will know how most sellers feel. They are very rude in trying to reduce your price and frankly no one can tell the difference between sarcasm, rudeness or politeness from an online text. I have dealt with low ballers extensively with my very first sale in JJM and frankly its hardened my heart towards anybody doing excessive bargaining.

..

+1, I recently came across at least two buyers who seems to be using this technique, quoting keh.com price despite of making it clear that I was not interested in negotiating. One buyer went ahead with even a cheap technique, posted a buy listing of same item with description of 'what would be the reasonable' price.  Now this was not the case here but I can understand if Kata seller was rude.

[kumarrishi]

I don't understand why the seller should get offended if someone quotes Amazon (or B&H or anything) price. Why the seller has to take it personally and retort in somewhat uncalled for manner?

Hi Kaushik, if you have ever dealt with low ballers you will know how most sellers feel. They are very rude in trying to reduce your price and frankly no one can tell the difference between sarcasm, rudeness or politeness from an online text. I have dealt with low ballers extensively with my very first sale in JJM and frankly its hardened my heart towards anybody doing excessive bargaining.

..

+1, I recently came across at least two buyers who seems to be using this technique, quoting keh.com price despite of making it clear that I was not interested in negotiating. One buyer went ahead with even a cheap technique, posted a buy listing of same item with description of 'what would be the reasonable' price.  Now this was not the case here but I can understand if Kata seller was rude.

How do you understand what is rude or not or what is in good humour???
...then buy from amazon
...then buy from amazon >:(
...then buy from amazon ;D
...then buy from amazon ;)
...then buy from amazon :-\

Please dont judge from what it appears in written words...with these smiles now i think you can interpret in 5-6 ways. And your interpretation may depend on what mood you were in while reading these lines (without a simile).

Please respect when someone writes NON NEGOTIABLE

Price debate etc, if necessary can be done by PM with the seller.

[Bharat Varma]

Classic samples, Rishi.
Now if only you could put together a similar list for "Your price is too high!!" (to be sent as a pm only, obviously), this could be the start of a whole new language on the Buy and Sell subforum.
:)

[Madan]

For my 1.7 TC, one guy, dug out it will only work with f/2.8 lens
and not with f/4 lens, as he will loose auto focus !

I replied, "What should I do about that ?"

End of discussion !  ;D

When someone clearly writes "Non Negotiable", why should you even try negotiating over PM ?
and risk getting told off !

If his item is not sold it's the seller's problem. If he steps down to "Negotiable" at a later date
then negotiate !

[kaushik_s]

How do you understand what is rude or not or what is in good humour???
...then buy from amazon
...then buy from amazon >:(
...then buy from amazon ;D
...then buy from amazon ;)
...then buy from amazon :-\

Please dont judge from what it appears in written words...with these smiles now i think you can interpret in 5-6 ways. And your interpretation may depend on what mood you were in while reading these lines (without a simile).

Exactly, then how can you distinguish between,
Amazon is having a better price ;)
  Amazon is having a better price :P
Amazon is having a better price  >:(
  Amazon is having a better price :o

and judge that the seller is another low-life low-baller and not a genuine buyer. I'm simply trying to say that if someone just asks for a discount or whatever (before getting annoyingly persistent on bargaining) then there are ways to say no in a polite manner than to be rude and tell the person to buzz off. If that's not clear or it's too tough for one to be polite before taking out the guns and daggers then I've nothing more to say. I rest my case here. And BTW, we are not even talking about sells with "No Negotiation" clause, so please keep that aside.
Regards,