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[amitk26]

Old greases decay and form oil on aperture. I read somewhere that
newer silicon based lubricants don't decay and form oil

[Hankosaurus]

Fellow Members,

It is the collective judgement of the Panel of Moderators that JJMPF Member "Gaurav Naik" of Mumbai has  misrepresented a product offered in Buy & Sell. Attempts to encourage an amicable solution to the problem have failed. Accordingly, his account has been permanently locked to bring this matter into compliance with Buy & Sell Rule 29a.

No further inquiries, nor any special comments from any Member on this issue, will be entertained by the Moderators.

[anil11]

Hi All,

This is Anil, a newbie photography hobbiestic, would like to share my recent experience of purchase on JJMF :

First time I faced this problem, I have bought multiple products from JJMF but never faced such a problem, Although its totally my mistake that I blindly trusted a JJMF member about pricing and all, Its quite obvious too, I mean people having senior ratings and member of this forum makes it bit comfortable to trust and have faith on their words.

Last month I bought two flash units from a senior rating JJMF member, paid him the asking amount in cash (without negotiations) & picked stuff from his home itself. Also we tried to test the flash units at his place on commander mode of my cam but somehow the synch was not proper but the person tried his best with settings, also he helped in explaining me the basics of photography and shared some study material too(so nice of him). After coming back i tried with multiple settings of commander mode, kinda hit & trial. it worked but not upto my satisfaction.. Also after couple of weekend experimentation I realized one flash can fulfill my requirements and its better to have a OEM flash for on-camera & off camera usage. Till now everything was fine :)

So I decided to purchase a SB-600/700 used unit in budget and listed the units I purchased few weeks back for selling to raise funds, In response to my WTS listing, JJMF members contacted me and informed that my asking price is higher than the current market price of new units. Initially i ignored but later I asked them the contact of seller. To my surprise that seller said these are out of stock but can provide for 3100/- per unit (which I paid 3600/- for used ones). I contacted politely to the prev owner of these flashes, initially he did not responded for PM then I called him, first call un-answered and in another call he was busy in some family function, here's the detailed communication :-

Hi ABCD,

I don't know how to say this but the fact is JJMF members calling me & stating same thing again & again "the price for new flash is 3100 or 3200/-" Today 3rd person stated this thing. I'm gonna withdraw the sale as I don't wanna portrait sch an image of mine on the forum.

Do you think you can help me in this matter ? I've paid you more than the price for new (whatever you asked, without negotiating). Please let me know if you are interested in discussing this else I won't disturb you again.

Thanks !!

Regards,
Anil Sharma

Hi Anil,

Even I am not sure what to say. I am not sure where anyone is getting this for Rs 3100 new. If I am not wrong even -------- had sold his YN560 at same price (3600/-) around a week or 2 before i had put it on sale.

My thought if it is really available for Rs 3100/- used and you are quoting Rs 3600/- then i would not even bargain with you, but will go and get a new one. These are just some lowballers who will quote really low price just in case they get a deal.

If you check the price on Amazon.com it's for $68 - @ 54.81 conversion rate and 5% credit card charge the price comes to INR 3913.00. But again that is price in USA. Adding some cost to shipping to India, there is no way you have paid more than a new one.

Even if you check ebay the price is lowest at $58 which basis the above calculation comes to INR 3337 + registered shipping $10.00 and total cost is $ 3913.00. Any seller in India would add some more profit for getting the item shipped to India and taking risk. There is no way I think it would be less than INR 4200 anywhere, unless it is a used product.

Give the same information back to the people who have approached you and they will get their brains back.

Regards,
ABCD

Hi ABCD,

I've shared a fb link with you, have a chat with him, he's giving YN-560 for 3100/- (I've checked the ground reality then approached you)
Three person confirmed the same thing -
1. XXXXX (Professor ratings)
2. XXXXX (Regular from Delhi)
3. XXXXX (Newbie from Delhi)

Yeah true ------ sold, I tried to trace his listing and found only one reply of -------, probably he bought it btw You also succeeded in selling :P I was happy too but somehow commander mode performance was not that much good and I realized that one flash can fulfill my requirement and I thought of selling these by own without giving you any tension to raise funds for SB700 but..

It really sound stupid to argue for few bucks, I pinged JJMF moderator (without disclosing any name, not with the intention to blame rather to seek suggestion) and discussed the situation, he suggested to check the ground reality first and hold the sale till then, so I did a chat with that person, he said right now not in stock but can provide in 3100/-

So I deleted the thread, I don't wanna cheat anyone.

Today I called you to ask your address, so that I can ship these back to you, I don't want money too. I trusted you man.. not negotiated even a single penny.. and said in mail too, money is not so imp but trust and relations are more imp. BTW y u deleted wts thread of these flashes? i can see other thread but not this one.

After dropping you pm, I checked your last active time too but no response from your side, I asked for discussion only mate.

Anyways no hard feelings, just provide me your postal address, I'll send these to you as I won't be able to post them for sale knowing the mkt value.

Thanks for your valuable time.

Anil Sharma

Hi Anil,

I don't know what to say. Though not directly you are saying that I cheated you. I send a notification to the moderator to close/delete my post if the item gets sold. Some get deleted some get locked. You have clearly mentioned in your post that you bought the flashes from me. So there is nothing to hide from my side.

I didn't force anyone to buy it from me. It's a open forum.

I am sorry , but will not be able to take the flash back, even if it's for free. I was asked by someone on another forum for the flashes also, but by then you had bought it. I am going to send him your contact details. Let's see if it helps.

Regards,
ABCD


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hi ABCD,

I've provided the facts before saying anything, true this is an open forum but still I was wondering if it was intentional or you were also unaware of current market prices.

Don't share my contact details to anyone, I won't be selling them... (at-least in this price).

Thanks for everything and hope you couriered the manual.

Regards,
Anil Sharma

I was expecting... might be he was also un-aware of current mkt prices and we can share the loss mutually but he responded like "It's an open forum, I've not forced anyone... :) :)"

Finally I deleted the WTS thread and purchased a SB-600, now I have three flash units :) :) will sell non-oem (with a loss for sure) , after atleast using them properly ;-).

So my point is before making any purchase double check on dealers too rather than checking online...

Regards,
Anil Sharma

[Digital_Reality]

Even though you should have checked market price (or online at least), I dont think it is morally correct to sale in higher that CURRENT prices.

Can I request mods to include one more item eg 'online link for product', in Buy/Sell std format,may not neccessarily with price, but prospective buyers can take it from here and search ...?

It will also helpful in understanding correct product.

Just a suggestion....

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[Hankosaurus]

Even though you should have checked market price (or online at least), I don't think it is morally correct to sell higher than CURRENT prices.

JJMPF's Buy & Sell Rules say that the Member must not engage in pecuniary or business activity on JJMPF, such as would be for the purpose of turning a personal profit directly, or indirectly as an agent for others, and at the expense of any fellow JJMPF Member. No business activity on JJMPF, in other words.

Can I request mods to include one more item eg 'online link for product', in Buy/Sell std format,may not necessarily with price, but prospective buyers can take it from here and search ...?

It is incumbent upon JJMPF Members to vet those Members with whom they choose to exchange gear and money. It is also their individual responsibility to verify the value of the products being offered. Items priced too high should not sell amongst reasonable buyers who have done their homework.

It will also [be] helpful in understanding correct product.

Again, this is the responsibility of any buyer before making a purchase. It is the responsibility of the seller to represent the product truthfully. The buyer should not buy before vetting product, price, value, and seller.

Just a suggestion....

Thanks for raising the point for discussion.

[Digital_Reality]

Even though you should have checked market price (or online at least), I don't think it is morally correct to sell higher than CURRENT prices.

JJMPF's Buy & Sell Rules say that the Member must not engage in pecuniary or business activity on JJMPF, such as would be for the purpose of turning a personal profit directly, or indirectly as an agent for others, and at the expense of any fellow JJMPF Member. No business activity on JJMPF, in other words.

Can I request mods to include one more item eg 'online link for product', in Buy/Sell std format,may not necessarily with price, but prospective buyers can take it from here and search ...?

It is incumbent upon JJMPF Members to vet those Members with whom they choose to exchange gear and money. It is also their individual responsibility to verify the value of the products being offered. Items priced too high should not sell amongst reasonable buyers who have done their homework.

It will also [be] helpful in understanding correct product.

Again, this is the responsibility of any buyer before making a purchase. It is the responsibility of the seller to represent the product truthfully. The buyer should not buy before vetting product, price, value, and seller.

Just a suggestion....

Thanks for raising the point for discussion.

Thanks for clarifying.. Make sense!

[NeViLLe]

I'm quite new to this forum and I don't know whether this has been suggested earlier.. but I find it quite odd that posting of clear product pictures with your JJM username and current date on a piece of paper is not mandatory.. I believe this rule would be beneficial to everyone..

[VikramF]

I'm quite new to this forum and I don't know whether this has been suggested earlier.. but I find it quite odd that posting of clear product pictures with your JJM username and current date on a piece of paper is not mandatory.. I believe this rule would be beneficial to everyone..

Hi Neville,

I must confess I'm confused as to how that will help and have always wondered about it in other fora as well.

The purpose is obviously to help people see at a glance that the condition of the item on so-and-so date was exactly like it is in the picture.

But then, so will a line of text stating that the item is in very good condition. The picture isn't a guarantee - If my intent is to cheat, I can certainly clean blemishes away using photoshop.

[Hellwrath]

I'm quite new to this forum and I don't know whether this has been suggested earlier.. but I find it quite odd that posting of clear product pictures with your JJM username and current date on a piece of paper is not mandatory.. I believe this rule would be beneficial to everyone..

Hi Neville,

I must confess I'm confused as to how that will help and have always wondered about it in other fora as well.

The purpose is obviously to help people see at a glance that the condition of the item on so-and-so date was exactly like it is in the picture.

But then, so will a line of text stating that the item is in very good condition. The picture isn't a guarantee - If my intent is to cheat, I can certainly clean blemishes away using photoshop.

Vikram,

It helps in asserting the fact that the seller indeed has the item. I have seen many cases when someone is new to the forum and wants to sell an expensive item, he's asked to keep a piece of paper next to that item and write a specific word so that the buyers know he's for real and isn't going to dupe them. That way a seller won't download photos from let's say ebay and say he owns the item.

[Hankosaurus]

I'm quite new to this forum and I don't know whether this has been suggested earlier.. but I find it quite odd that posting of clear product pictures with your JJM username and current date on a piece of paper is not mandatory.. I believe this rule would be beneficial to everyone..

Hi Neville,

I must confess I'm confused as to how that will help and have always wondered about it in other fora as well.

The purpose is obviously to help people see at a glance that the condition of the item on so-and-so date was exactly like it is in the picture.

But then, so will a line of text stating that the item is in very good condition. The picture isn't a guarantee - If my intent is to cheat, I can certainly clean blemishes away using photoshop.

Vikram,

It helps in asserting the fact that the seller indeed has the item. I have seen many cases when someone is new to the forum and wants to sell an expensive item, he's asked to keep a piece of paper next to that item and write a specific word so that the buyers know he's for real and isn't going to dupe them. That way a seller won't download photos from let's say ebay and say he owns the item.

Hi Veeresh.

It's impossible to legislate integrity in a foolproof manner. The Rules recommend (but do not require) the use of photographs to clarify the offer, and especially so if one is "selling for a friend." The seller, if he really wants to make the sale, should represent his offer in such a way as to dispel reasonable doubts from every corner. If he does not do that, then that could be interpreted as a red flag, and which could result in serious doubts about the offer, and even of the seller himself. Seller's loss.

The buyer has a personal responsibility to notice deficits in the quality of the offer, and in the quality of the seller, for that matter. He should discern the quality of the seller and product through interrogation or by other means. He must not expect to be able to push this personal responsibility off and onto others. No rule can replace this responsibility.

Any JJMPF Member in good standing can probably sell anything he has without pictures, if he chooses to do so.  And it is his choice as to whether or not a particular offer actually needs pictures in order to sell. He might choose to describe a flaw or provide a picture of it. His choice.

The only requirements of the seller are that his offer is truthful, strictly photographic in nature, and that his activity is not pecuniary. If his pitch is not convincing, then too bad for him.

Common sense would suggest that newer Members should make longer strides to address any lingering doubts about themselves and their offers. In many cases photos would probably help. Your idea about the piece of paper is one example of how to address that. They should do such things if they want to make the sale, but it is not a requirement.

A blanket mandate for photographs in For Sale offers would only make it less convenient to sell items in those cases wherein photos are not really needed. And a look through Buy & Sell will reveal that there are many such cases.