Feedback - FROWNS

[VikramF]

A friend of mine, by the user name of MS, has been banned from the group....He want to know why he was banned....and he cant log in the site anymore....He wants to know whether he can rejoin by the same name..Thanks

Could you send/post a link to his account here? I can't find any "MS" .

[drgap]

A friend of mine, by the user name of MS, has been banned from the group....He want to know why he was banned....and he cant log in the site anymore....He wants to know whether he can rejoin by the same name..Thanks

[Hankosaurus]

Hi Veeresh.

I understand, and I know we are all together in this thinking of personal responsibility.

Even though I spoke to you personally in my previous post, I had visualized myself speaking for the benefit of the readership in general. I saw an opportunity to restate the "Intent of the Rules," and especially as they pertain to the unfortunate issue encountered by two of our fellow Members just up-thread.

Your many valuable contributions in advancing useful dialogue on JJMPF are appreciated more than you may know.

[Hellwrath]

Henry,

I am with you on every point, I was trying to trying to explain the rationale behind the photo with date rule on other forums :). I am usually wary of buying/selling without inspection unless I know the person well. It's individual responsibility and as you rightly said, no rule can make a system foolproof. We just have to be careful and smart and choose the right people to deal with.

[Hankosaurus]

I'm quite new to this forum and I don't know whether this has been suggested earlier.. but I find it quite odd that posting of clear product pictures with your JJM username and current date on a piece of paper is not mandatory.. I believe this rule would be beneficial to everyone..

Hi Neville,

I must confess I'm confused as to how that will help and have always wondered about it in other fora as well.

The purpose is obviously to help people see at a glance that the condition of the item on so-and-so date was exactly like it is in the picture.

But then, so will a line of text stating that the item is in very good condition. The picture isn't a guarantee - If my intent is to cheat, I can certainly clean blemishes away using photoshop.

Vikram,

It helps in asserting the fact that the seller indeed has the item. I have seen many cases when someone is new to the forum and wants to sell an expensive item, he's asked to keep a piece of paper next to that item and write a specific word so that the buyers know he's for real and isn't going to dupe them. That way a seller won't download photos from let's say ebay and say he owns the item.

Hi Veeresh.

It's impossible to legislate integrity in a foolproof manner. The Rules recommend (but do not require) the use of photographs to clarify the offer, and especially so if one is "selling for a friend." The seller, if he really wants to make the sale, should represent his offer in such a way as to dispel reasonable doubts from every corner. If he does not do that, then that could be interpreted as a red flag, and which could result in serious doubts about the offer, and even of the seller himself. Seller's loss.

The buyer has a personal responsibility to notice deficits in the quality of the offer, and in the quality of the seller, for that matter. He should discern the quality of the seller and product through interrogation or by other means. He must not expect to be able to push this personal responsibility off and onto others. No rule can replace this responsibility.

Any JJMPF Member in good standing can probably sell anything he has without pictures, if he chooses to do so.  And it is his choice as to whether or not a particular offer actually needs pictures in order to sell. He might choose to describe a flaw or provide a picture of it. His choice.

The only requirements of the seller are that his offer is truthful, strictly photographic in nature, and that his activity is not pecuniary. If his pitch is not convincing, then too bad for him.

Common sense would suggest that newer Members should make longer strides to address any lingering doubts about themselves and their offers. In many cases photos would probably help. Your idea about the piece of paper is one example of how to address that. They should do such things if they want to make the sale, but it is not a requirement.

A blanket mandate for photographs in For Sale offers would only make it less convenient to sell items in those cases wherein photos are not really needed. And a look through Buy & Sell will reveal that there are many such cases.

[Hellwrath]

I'm quite new to this forum and I don't know whether this has been suggested earlier.. but I find it quite odd that posting of clear product pictures with your JJM username and current date on a piece of paper is not mandatory.. I believe this rule would be beneficial to everyone..

Hi Neville,

I must confess I'm confused as to how that will help and have always wondered about it in other fora as well.

The purpose is obviously to help people see at a glance that the condition of the item on so-and-so date was exactly like it is in the picture.

But then, so will a line of text stating that the item is in very good condition. The picture isn't a guarantee - If my intent is to cheat, I can certainly clean blemishes away using photoshop.

Vikram,

It helps in asserting the fact that the seller indeed has the item. I have seen many cases when someone is new to the forum and wants to sell an expensive item, he's asked to keep a piece of paper next to that item and write a specific word so that the buyers know he's for real and isn't going to dupe them. That way a seller won't download photos from let's say ebay and say he owns the item.

[VikramF]

I'm quite new to this forum and I don't know whether this has been suggested earlier.. but I find it quite odd that posting of clear product pictures with your JJM username and current date on a piece of paper is not mandatory.. I believe this rule would be beneficial to everyone..

Hi Neville,

I must confess I'm confused as to how that will help and have always wondered about it in other fora as well.

The purpose is obviously to help people see at a glance that the condition of the item on so-and-so date was exactly like it is in the picture.

But then, so will a line of text stating that the item is in very good condition. The picture isn't a guarantee - If my intent is to cheat, I can certainly clean blemishes away using photoshop.

[NeViLLe]

I'm quite new to this forum and I don't know whether this has been suggested earlier.. but I find it quite odd that posting of clear product pictures with your JJM username and current date on a piece of paper is not mandatory.. I believe this rule would be beneficial to everyone..

[Digital_Reality]

Even though you should have checked market price (or online at least), I don't think it is morally correct to sell higher than CURRENT prices.

JJMPF's Buy & Sell Rules say that the Member must not engage in pecuniary or business activity on JJMPF, such as would be for the purpose of turning a personal profit directly, or indirectly as an agent for others, and at the expense of any fellow JJMPF Member. No business activity on JJMPF, in other words.

Can I request mods to include one more item eg 'online link for product', in Buy/Sell std format,may not necessarily with price, but prospective buyers can take it from here and search ...?

It is incumbent upon JJMPF Members to vet those Members with whom they choose to exchange gear and money. It is also their individual responsibility to verify the value of the products being offered. Items priced too high should not sell amongst reasonable buyers who have done their homework.

It will also [be] helpful in understanding correct product.

Again, this is the responsibility of any buyer before making a purchase. It is the responsibility of the seller to represent the product truthfully. The buyer should not buy before vetting product, price, value, and seller.

Just a suggestion....

Thanks for raising the point for discussion.

Thanks for clarifying.. Make sense!

[Hankosaurus]

Even though you should have checked market price (or online at least), I don't think it is morally correct to sell higher than CURRENT prices.

JJMPF's Buy & Sell Rules say that the Member must not engage in pecuniary or business activity on JJMPF, such as would be for the purpose of turning a personal profit directly, or indirectly as an agent for others, and at the expense of any fellow JJMPF Member. No business activity on JJMPF, in other words.

Can I request mods to include one more item eg 'online link for product', in Buy/Sell std format,may not necessarily with price, but prospective buyers can take it from here and search ...?

It is incumbent upon JJMPF Members to vet those Members with whom they choose to exchange gear and money. It is also their individual responsibility to verify the value of the products being offered. Items priced too high should not sell amongst reasonable buyers who have done their homework.

It will also [be] helpful in understanding correct product.

Again, this is the responsibility of any buyer before making a purchase. It is the responsibility of the seller to represent the product truthfully. The buyer should not buy before vetting product, price, value, and seller.

Just a suggestion....

Thanks for raising the point for discussion.