Bird Photography

[Abhijit Rao]

Yes indeed. As the aperture is irrelevant (mostly) here, Shutter priority should work better for birding and wildlife. Being primarily a landscape and street photographer I have always used Aperture-priority and I suppose I got used to dealing with shutter indirectly. Let's see if I can remember to try Shutter priority next time birding. :-D.  Interesting discussion.

[Abhishek Paranjape]

Continuing on exactly what you said, that the camera cannot give you sharp photos, you have to control it and you can keep it in control by changing the shutter speed yourself. Aperture priority won't allow you to do that directly.
Hence my argument about how why shutter priority or full manual should get preference over aperture priority.

[Abhijit Rao]

Also:
Freezing frame => Higher shutter
Higher shutter => more light
more light => usually widest aperture (unless very bright conditions)

We may not care much about DoF for birding but unless it is very bright you will end up with a wide aperture. And even in bright conditions, you will get higher shutter speeds with the wide aperture, which will improve the chances of sharp photos.

But bright conditions are not challenging in this aspect, are they? It's the lower light which is really challenging.

In lower light to get higher shutter speeds one will need either of the two :
a) wider aperture - for which there is a physical limitation
b) higher ISO - this is our only other param then

So it's a game between noise (higher ISO) or shake (slower shutter speeds).

... and for me, getting the eyes in sharp focus. My camera does not do that for me.

my doubt over aperture priority is this- lets say i am shooting wideopen and yet due to auto iso setting, my shutter won't become fast as i want due to sudden change of condition, then what do i do ?

In Aperture Priority mode when your shutter speed varies, assuming the ISO is manual, changing conditions can be tackled by ISO adjustment. If both shutter speed and ISO are floating you're almost in Auto mode, dependent on the camera's ability to "read the scene".

For any control, you need at least two of the three (SS/A/ISO) to be constant, else your "keeper rate" will fall drastically. You'll get some shots but much fewer than when you're in control.

For bird photography shutter speed is vital, to freeze motion - even static birds move constantly. You need to fix aperture to achieve the correct DOF (else you might get the head in focus and the beak blurred or such like undesirable results). What you can leave floating - especially while panning for Birds in flight, is ISO, because backgrounds change and Auto ISO can compensate.

So, Manual mode with or without Auto ISO is my recommendation for birding. Having said that, some birders I know quite successfully shoot at Aperture priority with a healthy keeper rate. They have developed ways to compensate the lack of a fixed shutter speed using other techniques, but that is another topic.

i agree with you totally, hence i started the topic in the 1st place. for birds, freezing motion is the biggest priority, probably even more than DoF. that dictates that we have Shutter in our control and hence Shutter priority will be more helpful since aperture priority cannot control freezing motion.

My take-

apart from controlling light in a triangle, aperture, iso and shutter have following functions
Shutter- controlling motion, freezing, getting motion blur etc
Aperture- Controlling DoF
ISO- Image quality.

going by this logic for birds , i need motion, then depth and then quality under control.
so either go Full manual with Auto-ISO or then Shutter Priority with Auto-ISO again.

[Abhishek Paranjape]

my doubt over aperture priority is this- lets say i am shooting wideopen and yet due to auto iso setting, my shutter won't become fast as i want due to sudden change of condition, then what do i do ?

In Aperture Priority mode when your shutter speed varies, assuming the ISO is manual, changing conditions can be tackled by ISO adjustment. If both shutter speed and ISO are floating you're almost in Auto mode, dependent on the camera's ability to "read the scene".

For any control, you need at least two of the three (SS/A/ISO) to be constant, else your "keeper rate" will fall drastically. You'll get some shots but much fewer than when you're in control.

For bird photography shutter speed is vital, to freeze motion - even static birds move constantly. You need to fix aperture to achieve the correct DOF (else you might get the head in focus and the beak blurred or such like undesirable results). What you can leave floating - especially while panning for Birds in flight, is ISO, because backgrounds change and Auto ISO can compensate.

So, Manual mode with or without Auto ISO is my recommendation for birding. Having said that, some birders I know quite successfully shoot at Aperture priority with a healthy keeper rate. They have developed ways to compensate the lack of a fixed shutter speed using other techniques, but that is another topic.

i agree with you totally, hence i started the topic in the 1st place. for birds, freezing motion is the biggest priority, probably even more than DoF. that dictates that we have Shutter in our control and hence Shutter priority will be more helpful since aperture priority cannot control freezing motion.

My take-

apart from controlling light in a triangle, aperture, iso and shutter have following functions
Shutter- controlling motion, freezing, getting motion blur etc
Aperture- Controlling DoF
ISO- Image quality.

going by this logic for birds , i need motion, then depth and then quality under control.
so either go Full manual with Auto-ISO or then Shutter Priority with Auto-ISO again.

[Bharat Varma]

my doubt over aperture priority is this- lets say i am shooting wideopen and yet due to auto iso setting, my shutter won't become fast as i want due to sudden change of condition, then what do i do ?

In Aperture Priority mode when your shutter speed varies, assuming the ISO is manual, changing conditions can be tackled by ISO adjustment. If both shutter speed and ISO are floating you're almost in Auto mode, dependent on the camera's ability to "read the scene".

For any control, you need at least two of the three (SS/A/ISO) to be constant, else your "keeper rate" will fall drastically. You'll get some shots but much fewer than when you're in control.

For bird photography shutter speed is vital, to freeze motion - even static birds move constantly. You need to fix aperture to achieve the correct DOF (else you might get the head in focus and the beak blurred or such like undesirable results). What you can leave floating - especially while panning for Birds in flight, is ISO, because backgrounds change and Auto ISO can compensate.

So, Manual mode with or without Auto ISO is my recommendation for birding. Having said that, some birders I know quite successfully shoot at Aperture priority with a healthy keeper rate. They have developed ways to compensate the lack of a fixed shutter speed using other techniques, but that is another topic.

Would like some more details about this last bit about "other techniques" please.

[Abhijit Rao]

If you are shooting wide open (fastest aperture) and you have hit max ISO you set and IF the shutter speed is slower than you want then you need more light. In bird photography, you hardly can change the light. So either you will need to bump up the ISO to a value higher (lower image quality) or you will need to deal with the slower shutter (as you are already at the widest aperture). Light is paramount.  If there is low light there is little you can do about it.

In bird / wildlife photography, rarely you need to go to a higher aperture - you will mostly shoot wide open. In that case the amount of available light dictates the ISO and shutter combination (both of which you need to choose for). That is the reason I find Aperture priority simpler - one less variable to deal with.

Abhijit

I use Aperture Priority mode (mostly). And auto ISO to manage the shutter. If I do need a specific shutter then Shutter priority mode. I mostly shoot handheld or with a bag or with a monopod.

I find accurate focusing to be the bigger challenge. The newer bodies do 'eye focus' and you are sorted. In complicated scenes when auto is not giving me exact focus, I switch to the DMF mode on my Sony A7R3. This lets me do the manual adjustment. This has given me very good results.

The metering is mostly on center spot. In very bright and open conditions the zone metering can also work.

regards,
Abhijit

my doubt over aperture priority is this- lets say i am shooting wideopen and yet due to auto iso setting, my shutter won't become fast as i want due to sudden change of condition, then what do i do ?

[Krish Chandran]

my doubt over aperture priority is this- lets say i am shooting wideopen and yet due to auto iso setting, my shutter won't become fast as i want due to sudden change of condition, then what do i do ?

In Aperture Priority mode when your shutter speed varies, assuming the ISO is manual, changing conditions can be tackled by ISO adjustment. If both shutter speed and ISO are floating you're almost in Auto mode, dependent on the camera's ability to "read the scene".

For any control, you need at least two of the three (SS/A/ISO) to be constant, else your "keeper rate" will fall drastically. You'll get some shots but much fewer than when you're in control.

For bird photography shutter speed is vital, to freeze motion - even static birds move constantly. You need to fix aperture to achieve the correct DOF (else you might get the head in focus and the beak blurred or such like undesirable results). What you can leave floating - especially while panning for Birds in flight, is ISO, because backgrounds change and Auto ISO can compensate.

So, Manual mode with or without Auto ISO is my recommendation for birding. Having said that, some birders I know quite successfully shoot at Aperture priority with a healthy keeper rate. They have developed ways to compensate the lack of a fixed shutter speed using other techniques, but that is another topic.

[Abhishek Paranjape]

I use Aperture Priority mode (mostly). And auto ISO to manage the shutter. If I do need a specific shutter then Shutter priority mode. I mostly shoot handheld or with a bag or with a monopod.

I find accurate focusing to be the bigger challenge. The newer bodies do 'eye focus' and you are sorted. In complicated scenes when auto is not giving me exact focus, I switch to the DMF mode on my Sony A7R3. This lets me do the manual adjustment. This has given me very good results.

The metering is mostly on center spot. In very bright and open conditions the zone metering can also work.

regards,
Abhijit

my doubt over aperture priority is this- lets say i am shooting wideopen and yet due to auto iso setting, my shutter won't become fast as i want due to sudden change of condition, then what do i do ?

[Abhijit Rao]

I use Aperture Priority mode (mostly). And auto ISO to manage the shutter. If I do need a specific shutter then Shutter priority mode. I mostly shoot handheld or with a bag or with a monopod.

I find accurate focusing to be the bigger challenge. The newer bodies do 'eye focus' and you are sorted. In complicated scenes when auto is not giving me exact focus, I switch to the DMF mode on my Sony A7R3. This lets me do the manual adjustment. This has given me very good results.

The metering is mostly on center spot. In very bright and open conditions the zone metering can also work.

regards,
Abhijit

[Abhishek Paranjape]

While it is good to get help from people who are already accomplished in what you intend to do, your best learning will come with practical trial & experience.
As a long time photog you must have plenty of memory cards lying about. Take them with you when you go into the field. Try each method on one card. Remove it try the next method on another card. . . and so on.
When you get back to your computer you will have clearly differentiated folders of pictures of each method you tried.  Comparing them will help you decide on the method to adopt.

Good idea.

Extending this further -

Do memory banks on Nikon support saving to different folders on a single card?
Do custom settings on Canon enable this?

If yes, this would probably make things easier. (Any image within a folder would provide the required settings info).

no, this is not supported on Nikon. but i do follow a simple idea when i am shooting different techniques. i just a put a hand in front of the lens when switching to something new. when checking the snaps, i know that what follows after the hand is different.