Feedback - FROWNS

[VikramF]

Hi Hillol,

A couple of things where I will talk about both sides (and neither are in any form an endorsement of either your views or the sellers actions - I'm just playing devil's advocate here):

First, let me interpret this from a viewpoint that is NOT in agreement with you: You assumed risk when you accepted shipping. If the damage was prior to shipping, then the seller has willfully deceived you. If the damage took place in transit, then it was an accepted risk. IT appears as if the damage was in transit here. You should have pushed for better packing and insisted on having some say on how it was packed and sent given that you were accepting the risk of shipping. To leave it up to the person sending the package who is completely absolved of risk is negligence on your part. Hillol sirji, you were also perhaps a bit negligent in not checking on the box, papers, strap etc prior to buying - you could easily have checked if they were present before buying. That's what Skype or any other video chat are for.

Second, and this is from a viewpoint that supports you: We're NOT a shop or a business. We're a community of photographers who love photography. We're gentlemen and expect everyone else on this forum to behave as such. Step one, as a lover of photography, surely the seller should/would have taken as much care in packing the item as he would want others to take when sending him items? It seems he didn't and that is how he expects others to send him equipment. Better packing would have prevented this. Once the damage has done, it's gentlemanly to be self critical and assume some measure of responsibility and not leave a fellow member out to dry. This is not what I'd expect members to do.

To all members:
1. Please hesitate when it comes to buying from outside your city. That hesitation should cause you to ponder on the risks of lost packages, damaged packages.
2. If you're going to have something packed and the seller says your cost and risk, then please don't cheap out here - take insurance and choose a reputed courier.
3. If you're assuming the risk of shipping, then please insist on having a say on how things will be packed.
4. Lastly, your reputation is worth more money than you could possibly spend on any equipment ever. Protect it and ensure you are a gentleman (or woman) in the actions you take. As they say, character is what you are in the dark.

I'd say splitting of costs would be the ideal solution right now to sort things out. Otherwise, the only possible rule that has been broken is if the seller had posted that the item was being sold with papers etc and no bits missing (the strap) But I would really hope that it doesn't come down to the word of the law and can be sorted in the right spirit.

[Ryan]

Couple of things :

After the repair is the lens in perfect condition.
Did nikon offer a warranty on the repair.
What parts were changed by nikon ?



From the post it looks like the item was damaged during transit.  As he has posted images taken with the lens as well as you had pictures sent to you before they were shipped.


There are couple of things that both can do.

1. Split the cost of the repair.
2.  Get the bill and check if item under warranty. ( talk to the shop where lens was procured from and ask for a copy of bill)

If no bill can be provided then the seller to bear 2/3 cost of repair.



Most importantly talk to each other and figure out middle ground.


Ps : I just seen that the lens was  marked as sold on 15th july yet there was an edit to the post on sept 06. What was editied can the mods share.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 06:49:50 AM by Aravindan »

[fx]

I am glad you took the decision to write. This would help others not to deal with him .

I dont think this post would matter to him , he probably would change his nickname and assume a new identity. You are indeed a gentleman to let it go at just polite requests .

Thanks
Faraz

[dashillol]

Though I was not very much inclined to write this feedback, as I am not the type to say bad or negative things about somebody, but I took time, consulted with few other members and finally I decided to write about it and wanted the members to know about it.
One of the members of this forum, Aravindan posted in WTS to sell his Nikon 300 mm f/4D IF lens in the month of July. I was interested and contacted him to buy this lens. He was a nice talker and I was impressed. We finalized the deal for Rs. 51000/- plus shipping charges at actuals. He told me that everything was in order and available, and lens in is great shape. I trusted him and was happy to deal with him. He sent me few photos clicked through this lens though not impressive ones. I made repeated request to him that he should pack the lens carefully and nicely as this is a heavy lens. I transferred the entire amount to his account on 20 July 2015. He shipped the lens on the same day and I received it on 22 July 2015. I transferred the courier charges on 22 July 2015. Now here is my experience after I received it:

1.   Original Nikon box was there, but box was in bad shape – it was torn, soft and held together by putting brown sticking tape from inside. No original cardboard packing was there. Lens was put in the original lens pouch wrapped with some 'pillow wraps', majority of those 'pillows' were deflated. Additionally some newspaper were loosely stuffed. Unfortunately, neither I took any photo nor any video while unpacking the parcel.   
2.   No paper accompanied the parcel, neither the bill, nor the lens manual. Upon calling him, he told that papers got lost during shifting of house. Instead he sent me a pdf version of the manual which is available from Nikon website.
3.   Strap of the lens pouch was missing. He never informed me before that the strap was not available with him. Upon asking he initially told me he will search and send that to me. Also he tried to lecture that it is not advisable to carry that heavy lens on your shoulder. Upon insisting he responded that it might be at his native place, which he is planning to visit in August 2015 and by end of August he will send it. Though I can't understand how a person leaves the strap of the lens pouch at his native place, when the lens and its pouch are with him, I believed him again. Till date (15 September 2015), I have not received the strap.
4.   Since I received the lens in the middle of the week, I did not get the opportunity to test it. In the weekend when I tested it, to my horror, I found photos are totally blurry and decolored and it hunts vigorously with my D7100 body. In manual focus mode also the result was the same. I suspected that there must be some serious problem with the lens and informed him immediately about it. I waited for another weekend and tried clicking some more photos when the light condition was better. Still it was producing horrible photos (those were not photos at all). Then I decided to go to the Nikon Service Centre in Mumbai. On 04 August 2015, I gave the lens to NSC for repairing. When I got the estimate after 4-5 days I informed him about the repairing cost. On 27 August 2015 I got the lens back after paying Rs. 11238/-. The break up is
a.   Parts Charges Rs. 5379/- plus Rs. 672 (VAT) = Rs. 6051/-
b.   Labour Charges Rs. 4550/- plus 637 (Service Tax) = Rs. 5187/-
c.   Total = 11238/-

I requested him several times to pay me back the repair charges as I got the lens in damaged condition, and in good faith and as a goodwill gesture he should agree for that. But Aravindan is staunchly refusing to pay, to acknowledge the responsibility of a damaged lens, perhaps due his shabby packing and careless attitude. I gave him time so that he can change his mind. I even got some other senior and experienced photographer friends talk to him but he did not budge. I also told him that by spending Rs. 11238/- he will not become poor, neither will I. But it is a matter of trust and faith when we are dealing between two different cities, have never seen each other but bound by a common passion.

This episode left a bitter taste in my mouth. I felt I was cheated by a nice talking silly man. I urge all members to think ten times before dealing with Aravindan.   

[canon4life]

Folks let me start with saying, the experience here at JJMP is nothing but awesome until now. I have several transaction with many members exceeding 10+ L over many years. I am sorry to report this one bad experience I had with Arkaraj. I am writing to save some of the frustration for other members that I faced for any future deals with this particular individual.

http://www.jjmehta.com/forum/index.php/topic,36865.msg342483.html#msg342483

I responded to WTB post above, he contacted me and negotiated to send the money for pick up in Bangalore. On the day I left I made several call to confirm that he is sure to pick up. I have TXT messages from him stating that payment will be sent in 1 hour and picked up tomorrow. I was leaving to airport and told him that it is fine and left the tripod with my friend back home. From 1 hour, to days to weeks, now it is 2 months this fellow now do not respond nor answer my calls now. After a month he sent me one email stating that he was not well, I told him not an issue please take care and arrange to pick up soon. I also offered for him to pay an advance so that I can hold until you can arrange to pick this. 

This is not picked up and I cannot use it as I left it back in India. I want to caution folks to deal with this individual.   
 

Dear Rajeev,
Sorry that i am not able to take any call of late. I dont know what part of my text message you didnot understand that i had a surgery and shall callback once i am able to. I hadbeen working out with a person in bangalore for arranging a local pick-up, but owing to the accident, couldn't took it further. Logged in JJMPF after a few days today and saw all your measures for emphasizing me as hypocrite (saw your multiple comments on my Sale thread as well). It was very unfortunate how you have reacted in last few days and the way you have described my character. On the credibility part - i may not have sold 10L worth of equipments but whatever i have brought or sold here didn't ended up like this one. People who have bought from me is welcome to comment. Anyways, following your nice gesture, I have closed my Sale thread. Shall not be posting anythng further till the matter is settled. Can still take the Tripod - need time to arrange the pick-up since people doesnot follow your or mine schedule. If this is okay with you....kinldy wait and I shall get back. I shall be offline again for few days till i am fully recovered.
Regards.

Glad to see your response and surprised to see you post a paragraph and did not find time to respond a line or answer my calls over two months. As I told you to send an advance so that I can be assured that you will pick is still an option. I do not have arrange for shipping this back to me and I can purchase a new one that I need ASAP.

Folks, I have again reached out to Arkaraj to settle this amicably. I have yet to hear response from him. I will keep you posted. Thanks!

Folks I appreciate you all chiming in and and sharing your perspective, hopefully Arkaraj can come to terms considering all your view points, looks like he is in some sort of deadlock with me to communicate, I have yet to hear from him. Hope to get over this ordeal soon.

Thank You all.   

Thank you all for sharing your views, Arkaraj had arranged for picking up 2 weeks back. I appreciate all your help. Thanks!!

[Hankosaurus]

Rule 29c. Concluded Agreements Binding
Once buyer and seller agree to a price and terms of delivery, a contract between them exists. If either party is deemed by the Moderators to have violated that agreement without the consent of the other, then the offending Member is subject to have his JJMPF account locked. Exception: If the goods are found to be pirated, or are reported to be stolen, then a contract did not exist. See Rules 29a and 29b.

[canon4life]

Folks let me start with saying, the experience here at JJMP is nothing but awesome until now. I have several transaction with many members exceeding 10+ L over many years. I am sorry to report this one bad experience I had with Arkaraj. I am writing to save some of the frustration for other members that I faced for any future deals with this particular individual.

http://www.jjmehta.com/forum/index.php/topic,36865.msg342483.html#msg342483

I responded to WTB post above, he contacted me and negotiated to send the money for pick up in Bangalore. On the day I left I made several call to confirm that he is sure to pick up. I have TXT messages from him stating that payment will be sent in 1 hour and picked up tomorrow. I was leaving to airport and told him that it is fine and left the tripod with my friend back home. From 1 hour, to days to weeks, now it is 2 months this fellow now do not respond nor answer my calls now. After a month he sent me one email stating that he was not well, I told him not an issue please take care and arrange to pick up soon. I also offered for him to pay an advance so that I can hold until you can arrange to pick this. 

This is not picked up and I cannot use it as I left it back in India. I want to caution folks to deal with this individual.   
 

Dear Rajeev,
Sorry that i am not able to take any call of late. I dont know what part of my text message you didnot understand that i had a surgery and shall callback once i am able to. I hadbeen working out with a person in bangalore for arranging a local pick-up, but owing to the accident, couldn't took it further. Logged in JJMPF after a few days today and saw all your measures for emphasizing me as hypocrite (saw your multiple comments on my Sale thread as well). It was very unfortunate how you have reacted in last few days and the way you have described my character. On the credibility part - i may not have sold 10L worth of equipments but whatever i have brought or sold here didn't ended up like this one. People who have bought from me is welcome to comment. Anyways, following your nice gesture, I have closed my Sale thread. Shall not be posting anythng further till the matter is settled. Can still take the Tripod - need time to arrange the pick-up since people doesnot follow your or mine schedule. If this is okay with you....kinldy wait and I shall get back. I shall be offline again for few days till i am fully recovered.
Regards.

Glad to see your response and surprised to see you post a paragraph and did not find time to respond a line or answer my calls over two months. As I told you to send an advance so that I can be assured that you will pick is still an option. I do not have arrange for shipping this back to me and I can purchase a new one that I need ASAP.

Folks, I have again reached out to Arkaraj to settle this amicably. I have yet to hear response from him. I will keep you posted. Thanks!

Folks I appreciate you all chiming in and and sharing your perspective, hopefully Arkaraj can come to terms considering all your view points, looks like he is in some sort of deadlock with me to communicate, I have yet to hear from him. Hope to get over this ordeal soon.

Thank You all.     

[Vijay Rajan]

"when you commit to such a thing, you agree to his terms. It just isn't right to alter terms once the agreement is made. I sincerely hope I've misunderstood your statement above, but it does appear that you're now saying that "Yes, I did agree to buy it from you, but I didn't give you an exact date and time".

You've nailed it Vikram. Full agree with Bharat too !

Hope sanity prevails.

[Bharat Varma]

I agree with Vikram.

Also, I see absolutely nothing unjustified in the seller asking you for a token advance. In fact, once you committed to buy, he was fully justified in expecting the full payment and I am surprised he's only asked for a token advance.

You have bought the tripod.
The seller can't use it or sell it anymore.
He has a very reasonable expectation for the funds generated by the sale.
He is simply doing you a favor by holding it for you (something one may well be uncomfortable in doing since it is simply an unasked for and unwanted responsibility).

Suggest you think it over and do the right thing.

[VikramF]

My full sympathies to the you on the surgery and I hope you're recovering well. I was of the exact same mind as what Bharat had said and had passed this off mentally as "sometimes events conspire against things happening and this is life". I was willing to cut you some slack as Bharat called for.

But this statement: That's just not right.

I have given a commitment to buy it and at a Price and would honor it but at conditions acceptable to me.

From what I read and isn't in contention, you'd committed to buy it from a seller. Now in my books, when you commit to such a thing, you agree to his terms. It just isn't right to alter terms once the agreement is made. I sincerely hope I've misunderstood your statement above, but it does appear that you're now saying that "Yes, I did agree to buy it from you, but I didn't give you an exact date and time". Thankfully this is a tripod which won't lose value as rapidly as a camera body.

If there's an issue in getting it picked up - then payup fully and sort out the pickup issue from your side, it certainly isn't the sellers responsibility to arrange for pickup as you were obviously well aware that he wasn't a short distance away at the time of agreeing to buy it. I think I've had such a deal where the buyer of a bag from me had me keep the bag for him for almost 4 months (maybe longer) as he was trying to find someone to pick it up. He'd paid up fully and even though I offered to refund him fully and sell again locally after 3-4 months, he said no and so I kept the bag safely for him till it was picked up.