Feedback - FROWNS

[dashillol]

Though I was not very much inclined to write this feedback, as I am not the type to say bad or negative things about somebody, but I took time, consulted with few other members and finally I decided to write about it and wanted the members to know about it.
One of the members of this forum, Aravindan posted in WTS to sell his Nikon 300 mm f/4D IF lens in the month of July. I was interested and contacted him to buy this lens. He was a nice talker and I was impressed. We finalized the deal for Rs. 51000/- plus shipping charges at actuals. He told me that everything was in order and available, and lens in is great shape. I trusted him and was happy to deal with him. He sent me few photos clicked through this lens though not impressive ones. I made repeated request to him that he should pack the lens carefully and nicely as this is a heavy lens. I transferred the entire amount to his account on 20 July 2015. He shipped the lens on the same day and I received it on 22 July 2015. I transferred the courier charges on 22 July 2015. Now here is my experience after I received it:

1.   Original Nikon box was there, but box was in bad shape – it was torn, soft and held together by putting brown sticking tape from inside. No original cardboard packing was there. Lens was put in the original lens pouch wrapped with some 'pillow wraps', majority of those 'pillows' were deflated. Additionally some newspaper were loosely stuffed. Unfortunately, neither I took any photo nor any video while unpacking the parcel.   
2.   No paper accompanied the parcel, neither the bill, nor the lens manual. Upon calling him, he told that papers got lost during shifting of house. Instead he sent me a pdf version of the manual which is available from Nikon website.
3.   Strap of the lens pouch was missing. He never informed me before that the strap was not available with him. Upon asking he initially told me he will search and send that to me. Also he tried to lecture that it is not advisable to carry that heavy lens on your shoulder. Upon insisting he responded that it might be at his native place, which he is planning to visit in August 2015 and by end of August he will send it. Though I can't understand how a person leaves the strap of the lens pouch at his native place, when the lens and its pouch are with him, I believed him again. Till date (15 September 2015), I have not received the strap.
4.   Since I received the lens in the middle of the week, I did not get the opportunity to test it. In the weekend when I tested it, to my horror, I found photos are totally blurry and decolored and it hunts vigorously with my D7100 body. In manual focus mode also the result was the same. I suspected that there must be some serious problem with the lens and informed him immediately about it. I waited for another weekend and tried clicking some more photos when the light condition was better. Still it was producing horrible photos (those were not photos at all). Then I decided to go to the Nikon Service Centre in Mumbai. On 04 August 2015, I gave the lens to NSC for repairing. When I got the estimate after 4-5 days I informed him about the repairing cost. On 27 August 2015 I got the lens back after paying Rs. 11238/-. The break up is
a.   Parts Charges Rs. 5379/- plus Rs. 672 (VAT) = Rs. 6051/-
b.   Labour Charges Rs. 4550/- plus 637 (Service Tax) = Rs. 5187/-
c.   Total = 11238/-

I requested him several times to pay me back the repair charges as I got the lens in damaged condition, and in good faith and as a goodwill gesture he should agree for that. But Aravindan is staunchly refusing to pay, to acknowledge the responsibility of a damaged lens, perhaps due his shabby packing and careless attitude. I gave him time so that he can change his mind. I even got some other senior and experienced photographer friends talk to him but he did not budge. I also told him that by spending Rs. 11238/- he will not become poor, neither will I. But it is a matter of trust and faith when we are dealing between two different cities, have never seen each other but bound by a common passion.

This episode left a bitter taste in my mouth. I felt I was cheated by a nice talking silly man. I urge all members to think ten times before dealing with Aravindan.   

[fx]

I am glad you took the decision to write. This would help others not to deal with him .

I dont think this post would matter to him , he probably would change his nickname and assume a new identity. You are indeed a gentleman to let it go at just polite requests .

Thanks
Faraz

[Ryan]

Couple of things :

After the repair is the lens in perfect condition.
Did nikon offer a warranty on the repair.
What parts were changed by nikon ?



From the post it looks like the item was damaged during transit.  As he has posted images taken with the lens as well as you had pictures sent to you before they were shipped.


There are couple of things that both can do.

1. Split the cost of the repair.
2.  Get the bill and check if item under warranty. ( talk to the shop where lens was procured from and ask for a copy of bill)

If no bill can be provided then the seller to bear 2/3 cost of repair.



Most importantly talk to each other and figure out middle ground.


Ps : I just seen that the lens was  marked as sold on 15th july yet there was an edit to the post on sept 06. What was editied can the mods share.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 06:49:50 AM by Aravindan »

[VikramF]

Hi Hillol,

A couple of things where I will talk about both sides (and neither are in any form an endorsement of either your views or the sellers actions - I'm just playing devil's advocate here):

First, let me interpret this from a viewpoint that is NOT in agreement with you: You assumed risk when you accepted shipping. If the damage was prior to shipping, then the seller has willfully deceived you. If the damage took place in transit, then it was an accepted risk. IT appears as if the damage was in transit here. You should have pushed for better packing and insisted on having some say on how it was packed and sent given that you were accepting the risk of shipping. To leave it up to the person sending the package who is completely absolved of risk is negligence on your part. Hillol sirji, you were also perhaps a bit negligent in not checking on the box, papers, strap etc prior to buying - you could easily have checked if they were present before buying. That's what Skype or any other video chat are for.

Second, and this is from a viewpoint that supports you: We're NOT a shop or a business. We're a community of photographers who love photography. We're gentlemen and expect everyone else on this forum to behave as such. Step one, as a lover of photography, surely the seller should/would have taken as much care in packing the item as he would want others to take when sending him items? It seems he didn't and that is how he expects others to send him equipment. Better packing would have prevented this. Once the damage has done, it's gentlemanly to be self critical and assume some measure of responsibility and not leave a fellow member out to dry. This is not what I'd expect members to do.

To all members:
1. Please hesitate when it comes to buying from outside your city. That hesitation should cause you to ponder on the risks of lost packages, damaged packages.
2. If you're going to have something packed and the seller says your cost and risk, then please don't cheap out here - take insurance and choose a reputed courier.
3. If you're assuming the risk of shipping, then please insist on having a say on how things will be packed.
4. Lastly, your reputation is worth more money than you could possibly spend on any equipment ever. Protect it and ensure you are a gentleman (or woman) in the actions you take. As they say, character is what you are in the dark.

I'd say splitting of costs would be the ideal solution right now to sort things out. Otherwise, the only possible rule that has been broken is if the seller had posted that the item was being sold with papers etc and no bits missing (the strap) But I would really hope that it doesn't come down to the word of the law and can be sorted in the right spirit.

[nirmalya]

Hi

Just my small contribution.

When shipping lenses, it's best to ship by the original packaging, so that the lens doesn't shake at all within the box. People receive big and expensive lenses from abroad without any issue, only because of the excellent packaging.

BUT: Always remember to switch off the VR/IS system before shipping the lens to a long distance. Even minor vibration can damage the VR system. Even it's suggested that while travelling by car with the lenses, better to switch off the VR system.

Thanks
Nirmalya

[Somnath Goswami]

@Hillol , what are the parts replaced by Nikon? Please elaborate the nature of damage suffered by the lens.

regards
Somnath

[Hyperdrive]

A few thoughts I'd like to share:

a) I always recommend that the buyer opt for insurance. Also, this insurance is against loss in transit, NOT damage to the item being shipped. FedEx India and DTDC do not ordinarily accept delicate items like cameras/lenses for shipment from retail customers. One has to sign a waiver absolving the carrier of responsibility in case of handling damage. Having sold a number of items here, just ONE person opted for insurance. Sad but true. Penny pinching can lead to pain later on.

b) I am not sure if Hillol's bad experience is handling damage or damage caused by improper packaging OR misrepresentation of the condition of the lens by the seller (giving the seller the benefit of a doubt here). The type of parts replaced can give a good indication of the cause.

Hillol, sorry to read about your experience. Please share what parts were replaced. Looks like the SC had to disassemble the lens completely so something was probably out of whack with the focus mechanism (hence the blurred photos).

c) As far as possible, always use the original box/carton. Take care to preserve these boxes in case you choose to sell at a later date. They are designed to protect the contents and are manufacturer approved methods of packing the product.

d) Although the shipment is at the buyer's risk (and cost), it is the sellers responsibility to pack the product in such a manner that it reduces the chance of damage during shipment. In Hillol's case I am rather surprised to read about the condition of the box.

When shipping lenses, it's best to ship by the original packaging, so that the lens doesn't shake at all within the box. People receive big and expensive lenses from abroad without any issue, only because of the excellent packaging.

BUT: Always remember to switch off the VR/IS system before shipping the lens to a long distance. Even minor vibration can damage the VR system. Even it's suggested that while travelling by car with the lenses, better to switch off the VR system.

Thanks
Nirmalya

Companies have tie ups with FedEx etc where they are held responsible for any handling damage or loss in transit. Unfortunately based on my experience we retail walk-in customers in India are not provided the same coverage so far as handling damage is concerned. That said I've not faced a problem so far with FedEx/DTDC/Blue Dart, the 3 companies I have used in the past. DTDC is the most cost effective.

Agreed about shipping in the original box as far as possible. Just a correction there, the AF-S and VR switches are electrical not mechanical. Switching them off will not "disengage" the mechanism but simply break the electrical contact in the circuit. So any shock to the package will affect the VR system regardless of the position of the switch.

[framedrelay]

Hi Admin,
I'm not able to read post from few people. For e.g  lbobo's item for sale "Fuji xt1 and 35mm 1.4"

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Ronnieboy]

Hi Admin,
I'm not able to read post from few people. For e.g  lbobo's item for sale "Fuji xt1 and 35mm 1.4"

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

That post has issue. Only that post. I too tried opening, but it becomes non-responsive

[ayaskant12]

This is regarding my deal with Mr Parampreet Dhat regarding
Fuji XE1
Fujinon 18-55mm 2.8 and
Fujinon 35mm f1.4

http://www.jjmehta.com/forum/index.php/topic,50606.msg425947.html#msg425947

In the thread also he has mentioned regarding the adapter and now how this guy is manipulating facts!!

During the deal the price felt bit high to me. So i didn't commit. So seller suggested adding a Nikon to fuji x mount adapter. So i decided to go for the deal as now it seemed ok to me.
During later part of deal finalizing stage it was revealed that the battery is a wasabi brand aftermarket battery. I insisted on giving the original one and seller said he will send once he finds. I agreed.
He never said he won't send the adapter.


Dtdc plus service i insisted and said i will pay at actuals.
He informed 1050rs after sending.

I received the items. Was busy and checked on 3rd day of getting.

And I informed him that battery and adapter is missing.
Seller said he didn't want to delay the deal so sent me whatever was in hand.
So i assumed once he gives me the adapter and battery i will give his 1050rs. That was my fault. I should have told him give me adapter and then take your shipping charges.


(There was no communication regarding money or adapter from either side. I was busy in selling the xe1 and getting a xt1. I sold off the xe1 and bought a xt1 so was cameraless during that period and never used either lens )


When I checked after receiving, All was working fine. I kept it in my box.

Am not a professional. After few days of getting my new XT1 camera I removed the 18-55mm from box  for a function and to my utter surprise the lens didn't work showing lens error. I searched in net and saw that it's common with this lens. So accepted my fate and never bothered to blame the seller. Basically the 18-55 was never used by me.

Now after around 45 days the seller returns to ask for the 1050rs.
I casually informed him that the 18-55 conked off and am at a big loss with this deal.
He said it was working fine with him.
So i reluctantly sent him 1052.50rs.

I asked on WhatsApp did you receive the money?
He said yes and said thanks to me. Even i welcomed him and closed the discussion.

Now i knew this guy won't send me adapter or the original battery.
I cursed myself for dealing with such a cheap person who even after knowing that lens is not  working and i never blamed him. He persistently asked for the money. So I decided to delete his no and block him on whatsapp and to never deal with this guy again.
I never had a spat with him.


I wish he had asked me why 2.5rs extra??
That was my way of saying BRO KEEP THE CHANGE.

Now hardly 10 days after getting the money he conveniently got the adapter and put it on sale here.

After i objected on the thread he retorted saying

1. The Adapter was not part of the deal and it was a FREEBIE
WOW JUST WOW

2. He said i blocked him on whatsapp so he couldnt contact me to inform that he found the adapter nd would send it to me!!

I am sure he tried to contact me only after i replied on the thread and realized i might hve blocked him.

Wow there is no other way it seems in this age
No SMS?
No WHASTAPP FROM ANOTHER NUMBER?
No facebook as i had added him there too

I mean seriously you are SO GOOD Human being?

TAKE A BOW BRO.


NOW I WISH SOMEONE BUYS THE ADAPTER FOR 1500RS

AND I WISH HIM LUCK FOR THAT

FINALLY YOU NEED THE MONEY MORE BRO

AND YES KEEP THE CHANGE!!!

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