Feedback - FROWNS

[vinay_pune]

Hello all admins and members

I hereby raise a complaint for faulty camera sold on our forum. below was the link for the same.

https://www.jjmehta.com/forum/index.php/topic,64774.0.html

i purchased this camera from the seller. as mentioned in the ad itself camera has some issue while doing menu settings. to which i had agreed.
i specifically asked him if there is any issue when i comes to shooting. he with 100 percent clarity said there is no problem.

upon receiving camera when i checked, shutter speed was not changing. that's a direct and serious problem while it comes to shooting.
i asked him about it and he said yes if you have to change shutter speed, switch camera to shutter priority mode , change shutter speed and come back to m mode.
this is most ridiculous answer i ever heard.

as he said that , he definitely knew the problem beforehand and still decided to deliberately hide it.
now once i purchased camera i purchased an adaptor from delhi based dealer to use pentax lens. there is no purpose of the adaptor now as camera is faulty.

seller here is offering to pay back for camera , but what about the investment i had to do because of his fault.
i hereby propose that seller pay for cam ( which he already did ), adaptor and shipping.

Pls guide us through

Warm regards
Vinay

[sweetlime]

To All JJMF members ,   (Matter resolved amicably.)

This is a feedback for a senior member of this forum Mr. Sumanta Chandra .
After much frustration I decided to make this public to members here . In short  it's been close to 50 days since I made the payment for Contax G 35 mm F2 lens but yet to get hold of it . The sequence of events are as followed .

1. I was looking for Contax G 21 mm F2.8 lens urgently and was unable to find one .
2. In the mean time Sumanta Chandra  offered a Contax 35 mm F2 in  Excellent+++ condition.
3. 6th June  - I transferred the Money .
4. 9th June  - Mr. Kher offered me his 21 mm f2.8 . Same day I transferred money to Mr. Kher and same day evening he dispatched the lend which I received on 11th June . I would take this opportunity to thank Mr. Kher for closing the deal quick .
5. 16th June -  after much follow up Sumanta dispatched the lens . I realized later that the lens was sent to service center after getting money ..and hence the delay .
6.  18th June - I received the lens and found it having serious mounting issues . I was not able to mount to either of my G2 & G1 unless manually  setting the aperture to F8 . For all other lenses I have 21 , 28 , 45 & 90 mm  - I found this aperture locking is automatically done while unmounting from the body which was not working in 35 mm . He asked me to send him back the lens so that he can get it fixed .
7. 22nd June  - I couriered him back the lens . Since then he makes a new story each time I ask him for update .
8. 22nd July   - After one month being frustrated I wanted to repurpose the fund for buying an oscilloscope , hence requested him to refund my money for the time being and once the lens is returned from the service center fixing the aperture problem - shall pay once again and he can send it back to me . He agreed to transfer the money and I am waiting to repurpose it .

I have noticed him using this forum to sell gears ..hence thought it will be beneficial for the members to be aware of this incident before striking any deal with Mr. Sumanta Chandra who lives in Mumbai now. While he was in Bangalore , we met many times having chat on various subjects . This was really a precarious situation for me and I was in a dilemma to tell all about . You can understand the level of frustration .. it's almost begging for my money lying with him .

subsequent updates :  
9. 26th July - 72+ hours passed. In the meantime I tried to contact but failed to do so and there is no update . I wish the story ends this week.
10 . 2nd August - I have received the lens and matter has been settled amicably . I would like to thank Sumanta for showing real good intention to resolve the matter quickly last week .


Note : These two updates were posted earlier but probably not being noticed by all - so I have moved them below the original post written on 24th July .

[gsferrari]

Had another instance where a member closed the deal and delayed the payment without any communication. I went ahead and sold the item to someone who had reached out to me AFTER the first offer so I had them wait. Once the first buyer didn't seem to want to pay OR update me on what was going on, I went ahead and sold the item to the next-in-line. I am not obligated to update the member who made the first offer but I did so out of courtesy, something that seems to be in short supply these days.

I don't mind the low-balling. I don't mind the delays. I don't mind the indecision.

Just DON'T do this on my time. Don't make me wait, keep me guessing after closing the deal. It is inconsiderate, unprofessional and highly annoying.

I am not going to name any names at this point because, frankly, it makes no difference. This problem is systemic. Besides I am not aware if this individual had any medical emergencies so I will not bring in any names.

Moving forward I will also be ruthless with those who delay and generally waste my time without proper courtesy.

[JessePinkmanYo]

This is strangely the same case discussed by gsferrari.

Thats precisely what I meant. Such cases (like gsferrari) have become more a norm than an exception. Which is what makes the situation alarming. On one occasion I had three non-payers within a day or two. Many a times this happens when the buyer wants to armtwist you into selling at lower prices or heck even cry "for God's take it for free but please take it....!" out of exasperation. I guess, for many this is an integral part of what they would like to think of as "negotiation" tactics.

And since there is no "frowning" for non-payers/retractors, I often find meself being forced into curt behaviour with buyers who might not have the intention of not paying. Really unfortunate :(

People use the word "book" or "hold" very loosely. When I ask someone to book/hold an item for me, it means that I'm ready to pay and just want to make sure it's in the same condition as described, or want to discuss delivery etc. It makes no sense to "book" and then haggle.

Precisely. You cant ask someone to "hold" it for you and then research on the item. Only to find that you dont want to buy it ! Holding/booking means that it is 90% sold barring a mishap. Really tired of this holding/booking business. Probably need to incorporate it in the special section in my sale threads. Not that it'd make any difference. People will still request for holding/booking ! But at least I'll be clear from my side.

[Pratik]

Agree Pratik. Ultimately I am just saying the seller can sell to whoever he wants to and no amount of hold it or block it should make the buyers assume he is at the top of the queue. The seller obviously cannot get money and sell to someone else :). If I need it that badly, I take the decision with associated risk and buy it.

Lately few posts I have seen here include dead pixels and whatnot. Once I buy, there ends the liability of the seller. That is the fundamental risk of buying "not in person". Everything else and every other argument after that to me is Moot. Once it's paid and the item is at one doorstep, "the one" owns every liability of that intelligent or stupid decision "the one" has made. (trying hard to make it generic so people don't get offended)

The day this forum provides certification, insurance, and liability coverage is when the forum can be held remotely responsible for any actions. Till then, one has to evaluate between intelligence or stupidity in decision making while buying.

Very well put, I completely agree.

[justaday]

Agree Pratik. Ultimately I am just saying the seller can sell to whoever he wants to and no amount of hold it or block it should make the buyers assume he is at the top of the queue. The seller obviously cannot get money and sell to someone else :). If I need it that badly, I take the decision with associated risk and buy it.

Lately few posts I have seen here include dead pixels and whatnot. Once I buy, there ends the liability of the seller. That is the fundamental risk of buying "not in person". Everything else and every other argument after that to me is Moot. Once it's paid and the item is at one doorstep, "the one" owns every liability of that intelligent or stupid decision "the one" has made. (trying hard to make it generic so people don't get offended)

The day this forum provides certification, insurance, and liability coverage is when the forum can be held remotely responsible for any actions. Till then, one has to evaluate between intelligence or stupidity in decision making while buying.

[Pratik]

This is strangely the same case discussed by gsferrari. Unless paid it's not sold and it's available for someone who is ready to pay. If  I have to book something, I pay for it. Not say "Book for me".  Let us first understand that there is no concept of blocking an item until the buyer decides to transfer money. As a seller, there are various reasons to sell and to me, a sale is done only after the payment.

I encourage parallel sales all the time but keep them informed that whoever pays first will get the item. Hard luck to the one who haggled, negotiated, and agreed but never paid vs the next person who basically paid and moved on with the sale.

We have been sellers and we have been buyers. The rules are exactly the same. Will you sell an item to someone who promised to buy but not paying or will you sell it to someone who is ready to pay? As a buyer will you wait for the seller to keep holding the item for a promise you made while you have not made payment? or do you think you deserve to get the item only after you transfer the money?

Never hold an item for a promise via PM or message. It makes no logical sense. Sell to the one who pays and closes the deal. But thats my way of dealing. And I agreed that I haggle, atleast if we agree I pay in few minutes and move on.

I agree, but this is quite subjective I believe. People use the word "book" or "hold" very loosely. When I ask someone to book/hold an item for me, it means that I'm ready to pay and just want to make sure it's in the same condition as described, or want to discuss delivery etc. It makes no sense to "book" and then haggle. I've had one particular buyer on this forum "book" an item from me, negotiate price and decide on a meeting place to then say that he isn't interested anymore. I may have declined other offers thinking that this specific person is about to buy it, even if those offers were higher. It's happened twice with the same person for me, so I have made it a point not to sell to that person. On the other hand, if someone just asks for the price and says they'll let you know, that is quite fair as it keeps you open for other offers.

[justaday]

Buyer going the whole hog and agreeing for a sale only to develop cold feet after 3 days means that other genuine opportunities get squandered in the meantime.

This is strangely the same case discussed by gsferrari. Unless paid it's not sold and it's available for someone who is ready to pay. If  I have to book something, I pay for it. Not say "Book for me".  Let us first understand that there is no concept of blocking an item until the buyer decides to transfer money. As a seller, there are various reasons to sell and to me, a sale is done only after the payment.

I encourage parallel sales all the time but keep them informed that whoever pays first will get the item. Hard luck to the one who haggled, negotiated, and agreed but never paid vs the next person who basically paid and moved on with the sale.

We have been sellers and we have been buyers. The rules are exactly the same. Will you sell an item to someone who promised to buy but not paying or will you sell it to someone who is ready to pay? As a buyer will you wait for the seller to keep holding the item for a promise you made while you have not made payment? or do you think you deserve to get the item only after you transfer the money?

Never hold an item for a promise via PM or message. It makes no logical sense. Sell to the one who pays and closes the deal. But thats my way of dealing. And I agreed that I haggle, atleast if we agree I pay in few minutes and move on.

[JessePinkmanYo]

The only recommendation is to ask yourself if you would sell that item for that price. If so, please go ahead and lowball :)

That is probably the best yardstick for setting prices/making offers. A seller to list at prices close to what he would buy at and a buyer to offer price close to what he'd sell for. However, its not only about prices. Its easy to ignore whatever qualifies as lowballing according to you. Bigger problem is the "time wasting" and "opportunity wasting" that typically accompanies such cases. Buyer going the whole hog and agreeing for a sale only to develop cold feet after 3 days means that other genuine opportunities get squandered in the meantime. In my book that is a far serious offense and very difficult to deal with. I can choose not to deal with the person again (which I invariably do) but unfortunately I might still be left with unsold item despite multiple "expressions of interest".

As long as it's in PM it's fine.

I would say its the other way round. A PM/whatsapp (without EOI on sale thread), is widely abused as an irrevocable warrant by serial lowballers/timewasters to indulge themselves to their hearts content. Snug in the belief that they aren't exposed. Funny thing is "price talk" is discouraged on sale threads to protect sellers' interest while it ironically ends up doing quite the opposite !

[drtsriram]

Hello,
In recent times Mr. Harish and Dr. Sriram has blamed me for being not a genuine buyer and lowballing.

1) I have contacted Harish ji for A7II for my friend but never confirmed that I will definitely buy the camera. I told that I will let him know. I'm trying to help him and also my friend. There is a not a profit of single penny for me. His relative was died and this is true. if anyone wants he can talk to my friend. I never confirmed harish ji for buying. If circumstances are not supporting for buying what can I do?

2) Regarding the Batis 85 lens and GS Ferrari I have done deal with him. I explained him what will I going to do to to collect the money. He has said that he will keep the Batis. But he has sold the lens without informing me. He can sell his lens to anybody, no issues. But where he agreed for keeping the lens he should inform me that he is going to sell the lens. Anyways the thread was closed after lots of arguments.

2) For Dr. Sriram, He had put a price for him camera and also I had put my budget. Where is the problem? No one asking for why he put a price tag for his camera, If I tell my budget that is 'lowballing' ? When a seller put his price on a item no one ask weather the price is justified or not. But if any buyer put his price in front of the seller that is 'lowballing' ?

Well, lowballing isn't an out right crime by any means but my sale hasn't mentioned 'negotiable' and followed all the rules of the forum. I am very confident of my selling price and I indeed sold it for the same price to a gentleman in Hyderabad. Anyway, good luck with your lowballing tactics for your future purchases. Best wishes.